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The journey of tech empowerment and liberation from tech bros can be a long, bumpy road.

The biggest tech regret of my adult life is that I didn't use a custom domain name as my main email address, so that when things invariably go south, I can simply hop to a new email provider.

The hundred or so email aliases I made with #Proton are a real headache right now. Time to clean up my mess.

What am I talking about? This ICYMI: https://www.404media.co/manifestos-fear-and-loser-thinking-inside-protons-ai-reckoning/

#NoAI #enshittification #ProtonMail

Manifestos, Fear, and β€˜Loser Thinking’: Inside Proton’s AI Reckoning

Proton CEO Andy Yen projects a calm persona and rails against Big Tech and critiques AI. Internally, he is pushing engineers to build Proton with AI, even when they have security concerns.
Joseph Cox (404 Media)
#enshittification #noai #proton #protonmail
Fairness4All
I find it ironic proton fight big tech by using big tech (ie claude). Any alternatives? I was hoping for proton to be a more viable alternative to gsuite

Edit: typo
This entry was edited (8 hours ago)
Elena Rossini 🌈
@closeted_unionist huh I do not use Claude. I picked ProtonMail 6 years ago because of its reputation for security and privacy and moved there from Google. I did not expect the company to take such a turn (in 2020 LLMs were not a thing)
@Fairness4All
Sebastian
so many aliases! I have much more less and consider, what should I do. Maybe can you share yours ideas how to resolve it?
Elena Rossini 🌈
@sebastian so I read reports by people who used a free account for a month and then did not pay that aliases ALLEGEDLY still work, even when plans expire. Still, I want to create a personal system where I do not rely on one big company for such a key feature.

I'm happy I never used ProtonDrive and ProtonPass, that's for sure.
@Sebastian
Elena Rossini 🌈
@sebastian Sebastian, sorry I have an important addendum. People report that aliases created inside ProtonMail still work (after the end of a subscription), whereas those created directly inside ProtonPass are immediately disabled. So please beware. The discussion is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1xis0n2/proton_aliases_what_happens_to_them_if_i/
@Sebastian
Paul - Antifa. LGBTQ+ safe.
Aye, this shocked me a big one too. I don't use their mail option a lot but I have Proton Pass. Seriously considering the move back to KeepassXC now.
Elena Rossini 🌈
@paulk totally understand, ESPECIALLY for something as sensitive as passwords. They've lost my trust... the only way forward for them is to fire Andy Yen AND their AI-pilled CTO. This is catastrophic for their image and reputation, I don't see any other way to recover
@Paul - Antifa. LGBTQ+ safe.
Andy Carolan
Yeah, I'm so thankful that I picked my Domain for my main email addresses. So nice to be able to change provider if the one I'm using chooses the dark side.
Andy Carolan
i should add that I managed to convince my wife and son to do the same. Best decision ever.
Elena Rossini 🌈
@andycarolan amazing! I grabbed a domain name for my child a month after she was born and I will definitely encourage her to use it - when she's old enough
@Andy Carolan
Angel
I’m in a similar scenario. Just weighing alternatives. Any thoughts?
Elena Rossini 🌈
@ngel I'm waiting to see how Proton reacts to this catastrophic, reputation-destroying story. If Yen and the AI-pilled CTO step down, I may consider sticking around. My unlimited plan renews in May.

For the time being I am changing my "from" email address and using a custom domain name to make the transition easier... I'm also looking at Tuta (where I already have an account)
@Angel
Graeme 🏴󠁧󠁒󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
Well, he was already controversial, but had mostly been given the benefit of the doubt. But that's it for Proton. A shame.
Scotty Trees
I was supposed to leave for work 10 minutes ago. Can anyone ping me and give me a quick TL; DR? Ty
Winston Smith
how deeply disturbing. Proton can't fall
Andrea
Oh wow, just in time, I was about to switch everything over to a Proton email these next few days, that was a close oneπŸ˜…

I have a few questions about the custom domain thing since I'm pretty new to this. How does it work if I need to switch providers using my custom domain email? If I were to switch, does it also move all my saved emails/folders/labels over to the new provider? What providers would you recommend?
Elena Rossini 🌈
@andresti if you switch to a new provider you still need to backup / download all your old emails but you won’t have to write to all your contacts to notify them of the change or tweak anything… just change DNS settings (with a couple of hours to propagate the change)
@Andrea
Petra van Cronenburg
"so many aliases" ... joke aside: Every time, I want to recommend you here and don't remember your whole name (I'm bad with names), I type @ plus part of your name ... and suddenly the Mastodon automatic completion for accounts runs wild. Too many accounts wirh your name. πŸ˜†
Elisabetta
when I was starting my degoogled life this year I had to choose between Proton and Tuta: I am glad I chose the latter, and I do hope that they don't turn out as evil as Proton's CEO did. So far I'm loving Tuta, I hope you join them or find a new, reliable provider soon 😊
Michael Santaly
@gilraen79 Looking for a new provider and seeing people saying they’re lying about their own AI usage. I’m about to give up and go paper mail only πŸ™ƒ
@Elisabetta
Elena Rossini 🌈
@wonkothesane @gilraen79 what makes me really nervous about Proton is (1) how more importance is given to LLMs' coding vs. humans when it comes to security (2) the toxic culture created by AI-pilled management.

It's not just a blanket rejection of AI, it's more nuanced than that. I would trust a real life engineer with qualms and a desire to be prudent over management that pushes speed and genAI code.

I think alternatives to Proton may have better corporate culture... the bar is pretty low
@Michael Santaly @Elisabetta
Elisabetta
@wonkothesane I have seen their replies and people's reactions to them, but I honestly want to believe they will listen to their customers' concerns and rethink about using AI for developing their services. I have always seen them listening to people, while Proton has always been shady to me, so I hope that was just a misstep. We will see in the next months, I suppose.
@Michael Santaly
Elena Rossini 🌈
@gilraen79 @wonkothesane as far as I can tell, Tuta's company culture appears to be healthier than Proton's. I already have a Tuta (free) account and I have made my custom domain the default in Proton. Slowly preparing for a possible switch... but TBH if Yen and the AI-pilled CTO step down I may stick around. Reading between the lines it seems that Proton devs and engineers put an emphasis on human code, slowness, and prudence
@Michael Santaly @Elisabetta
Zonntag πŸ”₯🦊
I've always had a bad feeling about this company... Glad I never gave them any money, and glad that there are still alternatives to the supposed alternatives.
Svavar the Neurozesty
I’ve had a custom domain for my main email since 2004 with unique email addresses for every single website without fail.

It removes a huge amount of spam and fraudulent emails and shows exactly who’s been breached.

I can’t imagine doing email any other way and being able to transparently switch providers has been huge.

It’s never too late. I hope you find a domain you like and can live with.
Elena Rossini 🌈
@svavar thank you Svavar. I've had a custom domain (for my website) for 15 years. I regret not using it as my default email address, sigh. It's already connected to Proton, so I set it as my default mailing address and created a bunch of aliases (for shopping, newsletters, etc.) as I get ready - at a slow pace - to possibly make a switch... number one lesson to impart to my 5-year-old (I bought her a domain name when she was a month old)
@Svavar the Neurozesty
Elena Rossini 🌈
I'm devastated to hear that #Proton 's CEO and CTO are treating their engineers in a terrible way, blindly trusting LLMs and creating a toxic culture where speed and growth trump security.

I'm not ready to make a radical switch yet but some little actions I implemented today could be useful for others, too:
1) I made my custom domain the DEFAULT email address in ProtonMail
2) I created aliases w my custom domain for shopping, newsletters, admin, etc.

Hoping this will make a transition smoother
#proton
Elena Rossini 🌈
My new approach vis-Γ -vis transitioning away from #Proton (in a slow way) - cont':

For every new email that comes in that uses one of my Proton email addresses (or aliases), I am making changes, updating the email address for that account (if it's shopping/newsletter/admin) or I am notifying the sender that going forward my default email address will be the one associated to my domain name.

It's a pain, but it's long overdue.
#proton
Leo RΓ© Jorge
do you have any links that could work as a gateway to figuring out how to acquire and set up a custom email domain? I've been using the same Gmail address for 20 years and it's the major thing I haven't degoogled yet. I don't want to have to change it more than once, and by the looks of things I won't ever be able to trust any email provider.
Elena Rossini 🌈
@LeoRJorge it's really easy. Just buy a custom domain and then add it to your email provider. There are many video tutorials about how to change DNS settings, step-by-step
@Leo RΓ© Jorge
Space Catitude πŸš€
Are you switching to self-hosted email, or an alias on one of the major providers?

I have been trying to figure out my best options for awhile now.
Elena Rossini 🌈
@TerryHancock I'm just using my domain name as my default email address so I can freely switch providers in just a few clicks (and DNS changes). I am not self-hosting my email, I heard it's like a cartel and I don't want to worry about deliverability rates, etc. Just using my custom domain so I can hop between different providers, that's all
@Space Catitude πŸš€
Ryan Sechrest
These changes now will save you a lot of time later. This situation is such a conundrum. My immediate reaction is to leave, because I don't want to indirectly support a company with a CEO that treats its employees this way and ignores the security concerns from the very engineers that built its products. But a company is also so much more than just its CEO, and do you punish the team and abandon the arguably good tools by leaving, when it's really the CEO that needs to go?
kdude
yea, switching e-mail gradually is relatively easy. The next challenge is finding a European VPN provider that works on the common video streaming platforms...
Alastair Temple
this is something I need to do (and tbh have been meaning to do) with my Gmail for years... but haven't got round to because of the pain of the transition and difficulty in figuring out where to go.
Elena Rossini 🌈
@smilingdemon using your own domain name as your default email address may take away some of the pain (re: figuring out where to land next) because the transition is pretty much painless
@Alastair Temple
dylenar
i felt split between proton and tuta. I guess i made the right choice to go with tuta (for now at least)
Γ†rion
HO.LY. F.U.C.K.

Thanks for posting that link. I had absolutely no idea! I've been with #Proton for many years, 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘀π˜ͺ𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘺 because I want to get away from Big Tech, not to get dragged back in via the backdoor.

What a arrogant, dismissive prick, this guy. I feel sorry for the employees, but I'm gonna have to look for an alternative. It really suck, as Proton Meet and SimpleLogin are really good products. What a nightmare! 😱
#proton
Elena Rossini 🌈
@aerion it's a real nightmare, indeed. I moved to Proton 6 years ago in an effort to DeGooglify. This development has been really upsetting.

Honestly if they get rid of their CEO and the CTO I may stick around... it seems that engineers have their heart in the right place, putting an emphasis on hand-written code and caution.

Otherwise my paid plan lasts for another 6 months and I will slowly transition away from it.
@Γ†rion
Elena Rossini 🌈
@Wishmasterflo yes, Tuta may be a good alternative. Their UX/UI is awful compared to Proton, but it is what it is. Same story as the move away from 1Password to Bitwarden because of Omarchy 😭
@Florian πŸ‡©πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺ
Richard Urban
@Elena Rossini 🌈 Why not host your own email on one of your servers?
@Elena Rossini 🌈
Elena Rossini 🌈
@richardurban I don't want to deal with deliverability issues
@Richard Urban
Walt Baldwin
'In a follow-up message, Yen reiterated his point: β€œonly losers think like that.” His ultimate message for the team was to β€œstop lovingly handcrafting all our code and use AI more.”'
Elena Rossini 🌈
@waltbaldwin I know. Inadmissible. That's why I'm waiting to see if the board gives him and the CTO the boot. I don't see how the company can recover from this
@Walt Baldwin
Sean
I've kept my SimpleLogin account separate from my Proton account for this possibility. Were you using the built-in alias functionality or a separate alias solution? I haven't tried to migrate, yet, but I'm hoping the separation does still exist for and I can just point my aliased addresses at a new mailbox.

I'm also probably going to look into a different email alias provider, because SimpleLogin is owned by Proton.

If/when I do migrate off of Proton, I'll likely use this as an opportunity to use my own registered domain, too. I still want to use a generalized alias email domain but having a custom domain for my personal email would be good.

#Proton #ProtonAG #AndyYen #SimpleLogin #AISlop #Privacy #Security
#privacy #Security #proton #protonag #andyyen #simplelogin #aislop
Elena Rossini 🌈
@seanm "luckily" I created all my aliases inside ProtonMail - so they should last even after (if) I cancel my plan. It's a shame that SimpleLogin is owned by Proton, I don't know of any other good alternatives and I LOVED the Dark Web Monitoring, sigh
@Sean
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